Planetshakers have their Planet Shaken August 21, 2008
Posted by Gordon in Worship.Tags: worship music, Baptist blog, Baptist blogger, Planetshakers, Michael Guglielmucci
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I’ve always thought the title ‘Planetshakers’ was a big call. Yes the church and the albums and the conferences are popular and they have spread their brand internationally, but the planet has never been shaken. It’s a name that reflects the typical hype that surrounds a lot of the branding and marketing within the Pentecostal youth scene. They are world class when it comes to hyperbole.
In this world there’s no such thing as ‘good’ or ‘great’, rather its “like so totally awesome and like incredibly mindblowing man! It’s like this wave of revivial that is like lighting a RAGING FIRE across this NATION! dude!!!!”
Well I’m not sure if you could use enough hyperbole to describe the revelation about one of Planteshakers biggest stars, Michael Guglielmucci.
He preached to thousands about his terminal illness and pulled on the heart strings like nobody else with his hit worship song ‘Healer’. Turns out he wasn’t dying at all. It was all a lie, an elaborate hoax.
Now the pastor who brought inspiration to so many thousands of young people has been exposed as a fraud, and you can only bury your head between your knees when it comes to quantifying the damage that he has done, and the cynicism his lies will birth.
I remember clearly a young guitarist who spent a year in our church straight out of Planetshakers. He was fixated on the song and Michaels story. The song itself debuted at No. 2 on the Aria Charts [Australian] and it was featured on Hill$ong’s latest album. The song itself is now a fixed part of many churches favourite worship song list.
I’ve always felt that the highly emotionally charged atmosphere surrounding a lot of modern worship culture makes it ripe for manipulation, deception and sometimes, abuse. When you have so many hundreds, and often thousands of people in such emotional thrall you have them eating out of your hands.
Music itself is very powerful, emotive worship music with all the added imprint of belief is incredibly powerful. Many of our congregation would enjoy coming to church if only to sing worship songs, and nothing else. No prayer, no Bible, just song after song after song [finely arranged and crafted of course].
There are plenty who would feel satisfied with that. Their desire is a sensate experience, and modern worship culture delivers that in a very polished way. Whilst YouTube have removed all videos of his song ‘Healer’ you can still find it on www.ccli.com
When you watch the video of Michael leading the song replete with oxygen tube strapped beneath his nose, you can get an idea of just how successful he was at tapping into that highly charged, emotional and sensate context. The outcome whenever he performed the song would have been the ultimate sensate emotional experience. When it comes to delivering the high point of a lot of modern worship, you can’t fault him can you?
Michael with oxygen tube looms large over the congregation
OK, he lied, and he has been busted, and that is bad. But didn’t a lot of people get what they wanted? Now that the object of worship has often shifted from the worship of God, perhaps anything goes? If worship is about worshipping God, and not our own consumption of emotional and sensate experiences, then integrity is everything. If the object of worship is our own experience and consumption, then we needn’t be surprised if from time to time we realise that a lot of it has been smoke and mirrors.
This week I spent time with a parishioner who spent 25 years in a cult. One of the most outstanding hallmarks of the cult is a large and impressive music ministry. Each Sunday morning over 30 musicians and a large choir provide an absolute feast of musical and choral brilliance. This person admitted that to a large degree the music served as a great attraction, which masked the dysfunction of the cult and the spiritual abuse of its people. Music is very powerful. May this serve as a warning to us all, and may the damage wreaked on young believers be minimal.
Mike Guglielmucci was “exposed” as you call it, by a prepared statement he took to the board of the AOG church. I wouldn’t call that “busted,” I’d call it confessing.
In this time, yes we are disappointed and hurt that he lied about something like this, but does that make his song obsolete? Is God still the ultimate Healer? Is He, as the lyrics say “All I need” or not? Yes, He is. And always will be. The song has lyrics that are still true, regardless of whether or not Mike experienced that truth then and there.
And while you brought it up, Planetshakers is so called because they want to give hope and inspiration to young teenagers and adults that they could have the opportunity to make a real difference on this planet. If you’re going to name something, do you aim for mediocrity? Should they have called it “Planet-barely-different” or perhaps “The church of not doing anything but criticising what everyone else is doing” - maybe then you’d feel comfortable.
Mike Guglielmucci may have come from Planetshakers church, but that doesn’t mean that PS have anything to do with this incident. Do we get to hold your church accountable for every mistake you make?
I think that in this time we should be praying for Mike to get the help he needs for he clearly has a mental health issue. Not bitching and whining about things AROUND the situation.
Funny Julie, you’ve just contradicted yourself with that last line.
Hi Julie,
There is so much talk about praying for Mike etc and family. etc and yes thats fair enough.
BUT what about the damage throughout the churchs of AOG that it has caused, how many christians will defect from the faith becuase of this and other examples like Bentely.
My biggest concern out of all this and others is not so much the person it surrounds (although that is important too, don’t get me wrong) but what about the decived and manipulated. That breaks my heart the most.
Because i have seen what happens in these situations, hundred or thousands defect from the faith. We see alot of the salvations that come about are from emotions etc. This is not how Jesus witnessed and evangilised to people. He brought the law, which brought realisation conviction of sin, and guilt, and then they were ready for grace. ANd so, by grace they were saved, not by the law.
Hence, why right now there needs to be a huge push for a call to discernment!
GOd Bless Julie and Gordon
apparently, he was confessing because he got busted by someone who noticed the abnormality of his story and his actions of suffering from cancer. This is from the closest source. I was so shocked and disappointed.
Julie you are right in that this does not necessarily reflect on Planetshakers. Although you would have to scratch your head that there weren’t enough people involved with him who should perhaps have noticed the absence of the usual things that happen when people have got cancer and are undergoing treatment etc.
You are also right in that the song still stands regardless of the deception and the charade that is associated with it. I haven’t seen people question the song, rather the lies.
I really don’t have an issue with Planetshakers, my comments on the name are a muse rather than anything else. I do think Christians often compete with Real Estate Agents when it comes to stretching the English language, they like really awesomely massively hugely for the most AMAZINGLY big words to describe stuff.
Anyway, back to our ersatz cancer patient. If I was suffering from cancer right now I’d be fuming. I would imagine you confess when you are busted, rather than confess before you are busted, but I don’t know what happened, Elle reckons she does and if its true then he had no choice.
I detect a rather defensive posture about the whole thing in your comments Julie. I think those associated with PS who are close the the centre of gravity need to use this as opportunity to examine the whole culture and ask not just how but WHY something like this would happen.
My comments are my offering as to one avenue of enquiry, perhaps you would care to comment on the substance of the comments and give your views about the power of music within Christian culture?
As for ‘whining’ and ‘bitching’, put those nails back girl!!!!
The AOG in Australia and many (perhaps most) of the Pentecostal denominations are fundamentally broken. You say “But didn’t a lot of people get what they wanted?” and I say that this is a big part of the problem. Brian Houston always says something like “we meet people where they are at” and we get words like contemporary thrown around with abandon.
But why is it always about people getting what they want? Because these are not Churches, they are family businesses selling (to quote Dire Straits) “Tax deductable forgiveness”.
A pastor who gives people what they want is religious fast food. Cheep, nasty and will kill you if you’re not careful.
Someone needs to design a warning label for AOG preachers (and hillsong ones too)
Caution this sermon contains hyperbole, misquotes, feel good stories, out of context scriptures and five times your daily allowance of the word awesome.
Preachers are human, as shitty and flawed as I am (and apparently in some cases more so) but the current style of church governance is such that these people are answerable to no one. Sure we get big blow up in your face rooting whores (to be colloquial) and getting a rub and a tug from some guy in the gents. But the real problem is the insidious day to day build up of crap. Most AOG ministers will never turn out to have felt up little boys before they left New Zealand. But too many of tem, preach crap, believe the hype, tell lies to make God more interesting, have unchecked egos.
My ego is pretty bloody healthy, but people can call me on it because I am not the untouchable man of God (touch not he lord’s anointed - sound familiar). I’m also controlling the church life of exactly no one (except perhaps my kids) but if you stand up against some (most [almost all]) of he current crop of Pentie bigwigs you might find yourself persona non grata with all your friends. In fact, you might find that your entire life is bound up in the one (privately run) organisation (empire).
So, what do you do when faced with loosing everything?
Shut up and don’t ask questions
Drink the cool aid
Hope things don’t get too bad
Blame someone else if they do
(I’ll shut up now and go back to muttering under my breath while reading blogs)
Modern day pharisee is unfortunately the category you place yourselves in.. such opinions, judgement and cynicism are in direct opposition to the life Jesus led. These things are unnecessary, unjustified and certainly unbiblical.
You and I and Mike are all continuously struggling with the same sins, and the same fact that we are all striving to live lives worthy of our calling with one thing in common, that we all fall short.
What man can invent a scale that attempts to measure how big and how short those falls are? And who can attempt to percieve the effect that those falls may have without turning a blind eye to the truth that “God works everything together for good”..
I choose to trust God.
Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone…..
Let this be a reminder that Christianity is not about Church but about Jesus.
Really good to finally find some measured, intelligent discussion on this.
I went to school with Mike, and I stumbled across the story yesterday and was absolutely staggered. One of the most overwhelmingly surprising things I have ever read/seen.
I used to be involved with this movement, which I call “progressive new-world Christianity”. It is as though a new type of worship has been “invented” in the new world (US, Canada, Australia). And this style of worship has been the centrifugal factor in the growth of the moment, rather than truth, facts, teaching.
One of my bugbears has been the lack of focus on the history of Christianity (the final straw for me was a 24 year old Youth Leader in a large church expressing surprise that “Jesus didn’t speak English” when he walked the earth) which actually gives some foundation to deeply held belief and faith.
For me “Rockstar Christianity” has become too much about the Rockstar, and not enough about Christ.
I Believe we need to stop carrying on like this, because we are going to divide ourselves. There is gossip, opinions,bad language and all sorts being throw out there at the moment we need to pray for Mike and His Family and all those affected by this. At the end of the day it is in Gods hands, We need to forgive, We are called to be Christ like. So please stop taking stabs at each other and Hillsong and planetshakers there music is what made me go to church until I meet God. I remember having Danny Preach at our church quite a few months back and him and his wife could not stop crying, crying out to God to heal there Son, imagine how he feels right now, so please get off of this vicious bandwagon I know that you feel betrayed and that you are upset, But we are christians please think of all the none christians who are reading this.
Venessa, your post isn’t fair.
Healthy discussion is all that is happening here. And it is my contention that the stifling of healthy and intelligent debate is actually one of the reasons that something like this has been able to occur in the progressive Pentecostal movement.
I do feel for Mike’s parents. And his wife Amanda. And for Mike himself. But that doesn’t mean blogs like this shouldn’t welcome discussion and views from Christians (and non-Christians) with an opinion, or for whom an open discussion is helpful.
you know I used to be a big part of Church and found that unfortunately too much time is spent playing church rather than reaching out and being practical for those in need.
that person in need is now mike, his family, friends and every single person who has been affected by this. Let’s get off our high horses and stop bitching about what we think and let’s have the compassion that we need to firstly forgive and secondly forget!
I’m sure that the media etc will have enough to say about all this
Ok, Mike lied, fooled the whole world,deceived me and you, and so?
If all of us think back, somewhere along the line, we have offended.
Jesus took all of our sins on the cross, even the ones we shall sin in the future. This is called grace. I am by no means minimising the impact of what Mike did. All I am saying is that Christians should approach our brother’s offence with mercy and grace and let us sincerely pray for the healing of his mental illness instead of judging him.”Therefore let anyone who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall (into sin) Amplified.
One of the biggest flaws in post-modern Christianity (a la Pentecostalism) is a lack of discernment when it comes to issues of truth. Mike mentioned hyperbole with respect to language, but what about the very same issue with respect to religious “truth” claims: concerning healing, deliverance, the (mundane) miraculous, etc? Has the standard for “truth” slipped, and are we accepting of this? Is “truth” now just another commodity to be wielded at whim and will, and has it morphed into something far more rubbery and far less concrete than when I was in short pants?
It is not un-Christian to point out error; it is, however, un-Christian to ignore it, accommodate it or otherwise turn a blind eye (and not “cheek” as one correspondent suggested, above) to it. Remember, sin isn’t simply an act of commission, it can just as easily be an act of omission.
All this b*thcing about non existent b*tching? As someone who has come out of the Pentcostal scene this defensiveness and reluctance to reflect and understand what has happened is deja vu!
Rather than sweep this under the carpet by saying we must just pray from him [which we must] is besides the point and ignores the opportunity to face potential issues. Pentecostals have always been very reluctant to engage in self examination. This is seen as ‘quenching the Spirit’. “Just shut up and sing the next awesome worship song!, and whatever the big guy on the stage says is OK,OK?!!!”
I would rather the discussion be about what I tried to discuss, rather than Michael himself. I know very little about him and that’s for others to handle. The issues that arise out of the excesses of the modern worship movement are things that I can and must reflect on. Because I run this blog, I can comment on it. Feel free to add your collective wisdom [which thankfully some have].
My original point in a nutshell was that we sometimes get what we want. If it’s a worship ‘experience’, then we may as well embrace smoke and mirrors. If it is to worship God and behold Him, then integrity matters. Most of the time I think its the latter, but in an emotionally charged environment excesses and abuse get easy footholds.
Somewhere behind the craziness it must have seemed like the ultimate answer to the kinds of experience some want out of worship?
I would like to comment on the comment made on the hype surrounding pentecostal conferences and meetings. These conferences provide people with the environment to see and appreciate how many others join them in their walk with God. Of course it is an exciting and fun time. The purposes of these conferences is to stir people up and light a fire of passion within their hearts. Incredible things are seen in the environments where we are free enough to worship God and let Him in. We see healings, miraculous works and prophecies and deliver people. The people that are shot down by hype are obviously not strong in their walk with God but have still had the priveldge of experiencing some incredible moments. The music of course is emotive any relationship stirs emotion and when we worship God of cuorse there needs to be emotion involved. standing there with no passion and purpose and merely miming words is not how some people connect to their Creator. Just my thoughts. Thought you may enjoy a different opinion
i also beg to differ in the aspect of not reaching out to those in need. There is a massive shift occurring within the youth of australia where we are so passionate about helping others. my youth group has begun a monthly ministry called ‘the cause’ and our motto….which is the motto of christianity is loving god and loving others. each month we go into the community and paint houses, clean people’s gardens and do make overs upon local schools. we love it!
this is a more complicated story than anyone here could imagine.
keep in mind mike’s stories of being a pastor’s son, an extremely busy pastor’s son.
i wanted to be angry when i found out the full story (and so far no one on the internet has said it). but when it comes down to it, his message years ago brought me to god. but since then i’ve had my own revelation. so although i’m dissappointed. and shocked that so many beautiful people are hurt.. i can’t lose sight of the fact that it’s really his problem. not ours. we get to live our lives tomorrow. he doesn’t. his world is over.
it’s insane.. he was always so anti hype. he used to get so so disturbed when our youth group would get distracted from the word of god. once when someone mentioned crowd surfing he got so upset. …
it’s …
insane
Gihan- 21-08-08
Look at yourself and it can be disappointing, Look at others and it can be equally disappointing. Look at Christ and there is hope.
In the end its up to every follower of Christ to seek to live by his the Word of God. To be a Man or Woman who’s very pursuit is to be like Jesus in every thought and Deed.
By living our lives with this as our pursuit, we will be led by the Saviour of the World back into the World to reach out to people with Love,Grace,Compassion and Hope.
God knows we all need more accountability in every area of our lives and for those of us who preach Christ and him Crucified need to make sure that we can say every time we hit the Stage!
“I have been Crucified with Christ and its no longer I that lives but Jesus in me”!!!
My concern is that another has fallen and in such a public way. However I pray that Michael will be constantly aware of a saviour that reaches out to all with forgiveness and Grace.
The truth is that Sadly we will probably never know how much dissapointment news such as this brings to the Church of Jesus Christ. We will probably never know what it was that led to or caused one to pursue such a deliberate deception. Without a doubt the higher the Platform the bigger the mess when you fall.
My prayer for every Pastor is be on your Guard! Stand for Truth!! Live for Truth!! Be accountable to many!!!And the Truth will set you free from any Fantasies that you might have from time to do with ones personal Success and Fame!!
Lets Remember the Words Penned so long ago.
For when I’m doing well, help me to never seek a crown, for my reward is giving glory to God
I only have to look at the stats on this site for today to know that this is a big issue. Despite 177 posts on this site since last year November this story alone has broken all the records. the
The next best post is ‘Free Graphics Resources for Churches’!
The traffic coming to this site over the issue shows that it is an important issue, and we need to learn what we can. We must neither sweep it under the carpet, or use it to judge Michael, but rather work out what we can take away from it and what the worship community must take away as well.
J - I don’t think his world is over. He can return from this more honest than ever before [in a different role perhaps]. There is so much he will learn from this, and whilst others may hold a grudge God has already forgiven him. I can imagine his lyrics in time to come will be very deep ala David in Psalm 55
The children…! Won’t somebody think of the children!
A lot is two words.
Not sure whose children you mean, please expand Moth
I have been involved in these churches for most of my life and i can only say amen to the original story.
But can i just say, that regardless of what Mike has done or anyone else for that matter, God is wanting our heart to be turned towards Him. i just recently listened to some MP3s from Frank Viola where he speaks to the house church and I’m just loving the journey I’m on. It is almost like rereading the bible and totally allowing the Holy Spirit to speak to you instead of the doctrines of man that tickle the ears.
We all need to look at our own hearts and at the same time, begin to discern what is of God and what isn’t.
If this causes people to question their faith, the church and what’s the truth then let it be.
2 Corinthians 11:14
Galatians 6:7
Matthew 24:4-5,11-12
Acts 5:4
Rough call Phil!
Can’t argue with that but it applies equally to us!
Not with you here, he never claimed to be Christ. He was a worship leader who ran a heart wrenching scam to deliver the ultimate emotional worship experience [and whatever else it was done for].
Yeah can’t argue again except to say the judgement is God’s not ours. I think we need to learn, not judge. No doubt people close to him will help and not judge.
By the way Phil, invoice is in the mail for having to do all your Bible verse cut & paste!
Places like Edge need to focus on biblical truths and not become swamped in hype and emotionalism. Obviously in such a super-charged atmosphere, scams like this can be pulled off.
How about worrying more about the bible and solid teaching and focusing less on building funds, buying cinemas and taking up “miracle offerings”
The pastors are paid. What do they do?
Sad to see that on this blog we have Christians having a crack at Christians. The bible teaches that where there is unity God commands blessing. Instead of turning on each other and putting denomination up against denomination should we not unite together and realise that God is still God, the church was and still is Gods idea and the world is full of broken people who need reaching! This terrible situation highlights to me our humanity and the greater need for a real and authentic relationship with Christ. Come on church - drop the banners over our doors and unite together to reach a broken and hurt humanity. Whether you are AOG, CCC, ABC or 123….Iam not of Paul…I am not of Apollos…I am of Christ!!!
Josh one of the reasons that the body of Christ is affected by so many scandals and crisis is because of the head in the sand approach which perhaps you subscribe to.
We mustn’t be scared to face issues, evaluate, ask hard questions, scrutinise etc. If all we ever do after an event like this is tell one another not to talk about it and move on as if it never happened we never learn anything.
Discussing issues surrounding these events is not having a crack, and nor is it denying the things you talk about: unity, the church being God’s etc.
It’s ok to examine these things. God does demand unity but he also requires of us to be wise and to examine our lives and witness closely. As Christ’s ambassadors we can’t be happy with an anything goes ‘as long as we don’t criticise’ approach.
I am not surprised by the number of people who have looked at he issue from a position of not judging others, or of unity amongst Christians. The trouble is, this is a one sided view that is perpetuated by the mega church leaders who don’t want to be questioned.
The fact is that Christians ARE called to judge others. It just depends on the type of judgement. We are called to use discernment, we are called to correct our brothers, we are instructed to avoid false prophets. How do we do this without some measure of judgement?
We can’t. But that’s OK because he judgement we are called not to do is to judge ourselves better than others or to judge others with a different scale o that which we use or judge our own actions.
Church leaders should be accountable to the people of God. We must judge their actions and confront them when they are found wanting.
and just to show I am not making this up here is one example…
“Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning. I charge you, in the sight of God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality, and to do nothing out of favouritism” 1 Timothy 5:19-21
Too often the mega church mindset dos not accept criticism, but sometimes criticism is warranted. Don’t we question and criticize our government? Don’t we demand accountability from our superannuation funds? Why should church leaders and church institutions be free from critical reflection?
They shouldn’t, and the demands of some that they should be are hollow and foolish.
There is a history behind this problem that most of those who attend AOG style churches would be unaware of. These churches often came out of denominations which were congregationally run. But from this came he problem of a hundred voices with a hundred views on where the church should go and as such no one vision existed. Therefore, the pastor was put at the head in order to remove the bottleneck and allow the church a unifying vision and a visionary to follow.
These people questioned the church, they saw problems and sought to change things. Why then should we sit back and assume that no more change is needed. Can’t we logically see that the reason they changed made sense, but that now there is a need to step back a little. The pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction and now the congregation has little or no say in so many things.
Now, the fact that so many people avoid this issue is testament to a lax culture in the west. Criticism is seen as a bad thing, whereas critical thought in reality is not tearing down the good, but it is in fact questioning things in order to improve them. Seeking objectivity, separating yourself from the yes men and asking WHY makes sense. The Devil’s Advocate was a real job in the early church and involved someone questioning things in order to ensure they were not sliding into error. Where is that person in the modern Pentecostal movement?
It is unfortunate that it takes something extreme like this to get many people to examine things. But is it does, then God is using it for good (IMHO). If you are a member of the AOG and this causes you to be able to see that the leadership is no all knowing, GOOD.
If you are part of planetshakers and this causes you to learn that you are responsible or your own theology, GOOD.
If this causes you to question the text of the next sermon you hear, moreover, if it causes you to actually go to the bible and see the biblical passages quoted in context, GOOD.
Christianity is not about being part of the biggest club in the world. Christianity isn’t about hypnotic music and flashing lights while a man in white shoes uses emotional blackmail to get you to fall over.
Christianity can be uncomfortable and lonely. Christianity can be hard work and painful. Christianity can certainly be critical and Christians can certainly use JUDGEMENT. Because otherwise, are we following the example of Jesus?
and I could probably go on (and on, and on, and…
This should have been my quoted text above.
from the end of 1 Corinthians 5
I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters.
In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with any who claim to be fellow believers but are sexually immoral or greedy, idolaters or slanderers, drunkards or swindlers. With such persons do not even eat.
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
Yep folks,
don’t judge the non-christians.
Fellow Christians? go to town on the bastards. Call them to account!
just remember, they get to do the same to you.
What interests me with the kind of fluff that goes on at places like this is the unscriptual handling of “words of knowledge” and personal revelations.
You know the type of thing:
“God moved upon me and said…”
“God spoke to me…”
“The Lord said to me…”
“God has told me there are people here who…”
etc etc and on and on.
Yet on a scam of this magnitude, God hasn’t said a word to any Edge leader. All the hurt being done to all those caring people who may even have given time to pray for a great healing to come about! All those Sunday morning claims of “God said…” - and on this critical issue, Divine silence!!
If God inhabits the ages, why does HE bother with so generalised fluff in the pentecostal world? Why not reveal the real issues?
Actually, the God of the bible is alive and well. The God of Israel hasn’t gone anywhere.
Next time an Edge leader says ” God has revealed to me..” or words of that ilk, ask the man why God didn’t reveal the big issues when it really mattered.
I can’t comment on The Edge cos I’ve never been there, and the article is more about MG than his father or anyone at The Edge.
I think God reveals himself in the most surprising contexts, so its a big call to apply the broad brush to whole denominations or churches.
There’s wheat & chaff everywhere.
ADHD wrote:
“If you are a member of the AOG and this causes you to be able to see that the leadership is no all knowing, GOOD.
If you are part of planetshakers and this causes you to learn that you are responsible or your own theology, GOOD.
If this causes you to question the text of the next sermon you hear, moreover, if it causes you to actually go to the bible and see the biblical passages quoted in context, GOOD.”
That’s the line I’m interested in, one where you can take this and suck the marrow. It’s not necessarily a TOTAL disaster. At the very least we can take lessons from it, rather than “lets just pray for him and stay positive!”.
I thought that that offering of perspective was constructive.
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnY12vCLMmQ&hl=en&fs=1]
Well,
your first commenter (Julie) said:
“Mike Guglielmucci was ‘exposed’ as you call it, by a prepared statement he took to the board of the AOG church. I wouldn’t call that ‘busted,’ I’d call it confessing.”
Seems she took offence to your post (don’t the AOG still have a lot of teaching about not taking offence?)
But it seems like ‘busted’ was the correct word after all (did anyone really doubt it would be).
As I understand it now, another Doctor (friend of the church? friend of someone from the church?) offered to review his case notes and he lost control of the situation from there.
the person who he had claimed was his doctor did not exist (or if he did, didn’t know Michael) and there were therefore no notes to review.
So the doctor who had offered to help out went to Danny, who in turn took Michael (and his confession) to the AOG.
at which point we all found out
and the exAOG members all shrugged and tried to pretend that they were no longer hurt by these things (or is that just me)
and the current AOG members all took another big drink of the kool-aid and waited for cognitive dissonance to kick in so they could all feel AWESOME again.
i believe that God is the God of yesterday, today and tomorrow.
to appeal to the people in our societies today we have to go out into the marketplace and try to reach them on a level that they understand.
if that means using mirrors and smoke, then great.
if people are going to these meetings to glorify something other than God, it will eventually be brought to the surface and God will deal with it. like He has done with Mike.
My bible says…
“It is true that some preach Christ out of deceit and lies, but others out of goodwill. The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put her for the defense of the gospel. The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains. But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.
Yes, and I will continue to rejoice. ”
- Philippians 1:15
***
on another note, members of the planetshakers are hurt, sure. but that does not mean that we fall and doubt that what we believe in is untrue. Jesus still remains. No matter what denomination.
anon - you are an excellent example of what I’m worried about.
You say that it is acceptable to use smoke and mirrors. I think perhaps I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it is your knowledge of English idioms that is lacking rather than your ethics. The term ’smoke and mirrors’ refers to deception. It is usually used of an illusionists methods of tricking people.
If you think using shallow deception is OK then you have pitched your tent in the same territory as MG. I’m thinking rather you are imagining the grandiose smoke and visuals that accompany ‘concerts’.
a couple more thoughts - yes there has been deception, and yes people are hurting all round, and yes the AOG churches need to wake up and realise that this is not a performance.
But underneath it all, pastors kids are on the firing line, and we need to realise that as long as we elevate and give disproportionate status to people who are ordinary just like us, they will fall.
Mike is a middle child of a busy pastor’s family, perhaps this was his cry for help, after trying to do his best to perform as he thought he should?
The reality is somewhere along the line he was not comfortable with himself and his life, which lead him to opt out through this whole situation.
His healing needs to be emotional and in his own heart.
Interesting angle Mary, and probably very close the the mark. The Pentecostal scene is very competitive, and people I guess are looking for that edge, that unique selling point. The pressure is even more intense when you’ve got ‘famous’ parents.
The smallest element of the church is the family unit and yes it is very unfortunate that PK’s feel this way, which really has to make you question the whole ‘church scene’.
I have to agree that PK’s are on the firing line and i understand as both my husband and our children are PK’s, but if we read the qualifications of an elder we should have our own households in order first.
Please don’t limit this to the AOG, this is going on in most churches!
I agree Donna, but I also think the degree to which a PK feels that syndrome can be in direct proportion the how high the pedestal is that is made for the pastor and their family or how high they make it themselves.
I have tried to emphasise that I’m an ordinary bloke, and the church is not a platform for me to perform. My role to to equip and enable the body.
In my experience even though your heart is right and you understand your role, the church and people around you put you on a pedestal. . . so then it comes back to us walking humbly before the Lord. So this is where as church leaders we need to first of all be equipping and enabling our families, where each family member ministers to each other.
I guess it is very unfortunate that the structure of the church puts incredible pressure on pastors and leaders to ‘perform’ and this they will stand accountable, but again first for their family.
It makes me very sad and it is very unfortunate that people such as Michael and many young people who have got ’saved’ under these ministries where performance, hype and entertainment have become the draw card rather than the power of God.
I have attended the Planet Shakers conferences in Adelaide and even then was disgusted at the behavior of youth leaders and the young people, then the next day they would be up on stage (and this included M G). No one wanted to be accountable.
Interesting points so far. One thing that I am concerned about is how much these type of churches charge for conferences. Some are over $100. And they bring in thousands of people. And there are quite a few conferences a year. I heard that after the hoax was revealed, they are now going to give proceeds from the song to charity. My goodness, I thought some of that would have been going to charity anyway. Someone correct me on that. Secondly, I pray for Mike and his family and all those affected. GOD BLESS YOU ALL!
Donna I agree that in many ways it is almost impossible to provide protection to PK kids because of how the role of ‘pastor’ is perceived.
My kids have suffered more from people trying to burn me and get rid of me. My heart broke the night before my last re-appointment [by church vote], my smallest asked if she could stand outside the chruch with a placard saying “vote for my Dad”.
The kids were smart enough to know from eavesdropping that there were some people who were looking to dance on my grave.
She was also heartbroken that she couldn’t vote either. I felt very angry that night that some of the downsides of my ministry impacted on them so much. My kids were also distraught at the possibility of having to move churches and lose their good friends etc. They couldn’t, and still can’t make sense of how it all works and why ‘big people’ can be so nasty to each other and make things so complicated.
John the conferences you refer to are big money, and big status events.
If the punters get what they pay for everyone is happy. Except you that is, and Donna. And quite rightly so.
It’ a bit like the Olympics, each one has to outdo the other. This is measured in bookings and also in how many people ‘respond’ or ‘come forward’.
Merchandise sales are also critical. Penning a cracking good worship song that achieves widespread popularity is a sure-fire way to becoming VERY rich.
The marketplace is inevitably involved as a distribution network for worship music but I think it crossed the line a long time ago and the few unaccountable big shots who could help regulate the scene are too busy riding the wave.
I was at Edge yesterday and the place was packed. I felt very sorry for the parents and have no doubt they were deceived like everybody else. Also the young man is troubled for sure and I hope he can find a way through.
It all makes me wonder though, I mean the whole “pentecostal” setup with it’s “awesome” worship, and (in my opinion), lack of solid teachings.
As well as being paid leaders who travel the globe, they have their own staff, and they are, in many ways, ‘celebrities”. The media was there yesterday and would have witnessed “awesome” worship music, flashing lights, and seeing the flock fill out credit card slips.
It was a different time I know, but the Apostle Paul endorsing this carry on? Personally, I don’t think so.
It just makes me wonder about our Lord who said his kingdom was not of this world.
Agree with your comments Gordon, and rather than being “not of this world” I am left with the impression that what I saw yesterday was very much of this world.
I suppose you will all say I should not have been there, and I would agree with you. I am very naughty.
There is too much money, too much fame, too much ego, too many flashing lights, too little emphasis on solid bible teaching, and too much emphasis on building funds and “miracle offerings” without there being a Book of Acts miracle in sight.
In my opinion.
I was feeling very much for Danny yesterday [and other pastors across the nation who were preparing to share difficult news with their congregation]. I prayed for him and others. when I arrived at church there was a young guy waiting for me who spent 2 years at PS in Melbourne and knew MG well and was pretty much a devotee.
He was obviously shattered, dazed, confused and not sure what to do. He doesn’t come to our church any more, he now belongs to an AOG church that had only last weekend had a big ‘response’ off the back of the song Healer. I’m hoping for him and thousands of others this proves to be a time of learning and growing.
The extent of a pentecostal leaders “fame” in this day and age is directly proportional to the abandonment of a solid biblical basis.
The wider the deviation, the more of the “world” there is to tap into.
In my opinion.
LESS QQ more PEW PEW!!!
it is what it is……
it happen, get over it. move on.
he had the issue and he needs help, god bless him..
Bearing in mind the original date of that post, and the date of your reply, can I suggest we are over it but you aren’t?